Ramage Family History

Deacon Edmund Rice

Deacon Edmund Rice

Male 1594 - 1663  (69 years)

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  • Name Deacon Edmund Rice  [1
    Prefix Deacon 
    Born 1594  Berkhamsted Hertfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location  [1
    Gender Male 
    Died 3 May 1663  Marlborough, MA Find all individuals with events at this location  [1
    Buried Old Burying Ground, Wayland, MA Find all individuals with events at this location  [1
    Person ID I3599  Ramage | Rice Lines
    Last Modified 31 Jul 2018 

    Father Unknown Rice 
    Family ID F1346  Group Sheet

    Family 1 Thomasine Frost,   c. 11 Aug 1600, Saint James Church, Stanstead, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 13 Jun 1654, Sudbury, Middlesex, MA Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 53 years) 
    Married 15 Oct 1618  St Marys Church, Bury St. Edmunds, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Children 
     1. Mary Rice,   b. 18 Aug 1619, Stanstead, Co Suffolk, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Bef 1638, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 18 years)
    +2. Henry Rice,   b. 1620, Stanstead, Suffolk, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 10 Feb 1711, Framingham, MA Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 91 years)
    +3. Deacon Edward Rice,   b. abot 1622, Sudbury, MA Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 15 Aug 1712, Marlboro (Westboro), Mass Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 90 years)
    +4. Thomas Rice, Sr,   c. 26 Jan 16265, Stanstead, Suffolk, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 16 Nov 1681, Sudbury, MA, (At Marlborough Per Ward Find all individuals with events at this location
    +5. Lydia Rice,   b. 9 Mar 1627, Berkhamstead, Co Hertfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 5 Apr 1675, Boston, Mass Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 48 years)
    +6. Matthew Rice,   b. Abt 1629,   d. 1717  (Age ~ 88 years)
     7. Daniel Rice,   b. 1 Nov 1632, Berkhamstead, Hertfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Nov 1632, Berkhamstead, Hertfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 0 years)
    +8. Samuel Rice,   b. 12 Nov 1634, Berkhamstead, Hertfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 25 Feb 1685, Marlborough, Mass. Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 50 years)
     9. Joseph Rice,   b. 13 Mar 1637,   d. 23 Dec 1711, Stow, MA Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 74 years)
     10. Benjamin Rice,   b. 31 May 1640, Sudbury, MA Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 19 Dec 1713, Sudbury, MA Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 73 years)
    Last Modified 29 Jul 2018 
    Family ID F1243  Group Sheet

    Family 2 Mercie-Mercy Hurd,   b. 1615, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 23 Dec 1693, Marlborough, Middlesex County, Massachusetts Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 78 years) 
    Married 1 Mar 1655  Sudbury, MA Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Children 
     1. Lydia Rice,   b. Abt 1657, Sudbury, MA Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 26 May 1718  (Age ~ 61 years)
     2. Ruth Rice,   b. 29 Sep 1659,   d. 30 Mar 1742  (Age 82 years)
    Last Modified 28 Mar 2011 
    Family ID F1044  Group Sheet

  • Photos
    Edmund Rice Homestead
    Edmund Rice Homestead

    Headstones
    Edmund Rice  1594  1663
    Edmund Rice 1594 1663

  • Notes 
    • Edmund Rice arrived in the Massachusetts Bay Colony about 1638. Our first record of his presence is in Township Book of the Town of Sudbury in the year 1639. Regrettably, no ship's passenger list has survived and we have no record of Edmund Rice and his family before 1639 so we can not be certain when or where he and his family arrived in the New World.
      Knowing the names of Edmund Rice's children at Sudbury, family historians have traced his family back to England using church baptismal records for his children and, eventually, to his marriage to Thomasine Frost on 15 October 1618 at Bury St. Edmunds. However, we have found no record of his baptism or any other record that names his parents.
      As yeomen farmers Edmund Rice and the other early settlers at Sudbury were well prepared for the tasks of forming and governing a new community. As yeomen they had assumed both personal and community responsibilities back in England. As Protestant churchmen they had been encouraged to read and write so that they could study and understand their Bible. Although not of the noble class, they had shared many community and church responsibilities in their former communities in England.
      Edmund Rice was one of the prominent leaders of his community at both Sudbury and Marlborough. In his Pulitzer Prize winning book, Puritan Village, The formation of a New England Town, Sumner Chilton Powell sums up the high regard that his fellow citizens had for Edmund: "Not only did Rice become the largest individual landholder in Sudbury, but he represented his new town in the Massachusetts legislature for five years and devoted at least eleven of his last fifteen years to serving as selectman and judge of small causes." and "Two generations of Sudbury men selected Edmund Rice repeatedly as one of their leaders, with the full realization that they were ignoring men of far more English government experience who had come with him." If your ancestry goes back to Sudbury, be sure to read Powell's superb account of the development of this New England town in the mid 17th century.
      Although much respected by his fellow townsmen, Edmund seems to have had an independent side to his nature. In 1656 Edmund Rice and others petitioned the Massachusetts General Court for a new town which became the City of Marlborough. Edmund moved his immediate family and was elected a Selectman at Marlborough in 1657. Later generations of Rices were founding members of many new communities, first in New England and Nova Scotia, and later across the United States and Canada.
      Like many early New England families, Edmund Rice's family was a very large one. Of his twelve children, ten survived to have children of their own. Edmund Rice's descendants through his great great grandchildren number nearly 1,450. This pattern of large families seems to have continued well into the 19th century. The result is that many living people can trace their ancestry to Edmund Rice.
      From the Edmond Rice Association 1999
      ===============================
      =====================================================
      Far-reaching interest attaches to a pen-and-ink drawing by Pauline Atlee Long, which has for subject the Deacon Edmund Rice homestead, built in Wayland, Mass., in 1650. Deacon Rice was a Pilgrim, born in Buckinghamshire, Eng. in 1594. He settled in Sudbury, Mass., in 1638, according to a tablet that has been erected near the site of his house.

      This tablet was appointed to apportion land in 1639, and became a Deputy to the General Court, a magistrate in 1641, and a selectman in 1644, and some years following. He was one of the petitioners in 1656 for the incorporation of Marlborough, where he passed away in 1663.
      =====================================================

      The genealogical records of the Rice family have been traced back for 33 generations, and its history has been written by Charles Elmer Rice, president of the Union Theological Seminary of Alliance, O. President Coolidge is descended from Martha granddaughter of Deacon Edmund Rice. The ancestry of Mary Baker Eddy, Discoverer and Founder of Christian Science, has been traced back to Deacon Rice's second son, Edward.

      Other famous men and women in the Rice lineage were Clara Barton, Harriet Hosmer, Mary A. Rice Livermore, Julia Ward Howe, Harriet Beecher Stowe and Samuel F.B. Morse. According to the records, in 1858 this family numbered 1400 families and 7000 individuals.
      =========================================================
      In "The Hudson Thompson Memorial," a book by Lillian Kimball Stewart, published in 1914, in a chapter on Edmund Rice, the following appears:

      "In a leas still preserved are these specifications for a house to be built by Edmund Rice prior to 1655. The house was to be 30 foot long, 10 foot high, 1 foot sill from the ground, 16 feet wide with two rooms, both below or one above the other , all the doors, walls, and stairs with convenient fixtures and well planked underfoot and boarded sufficiently to lay corn in the story above-head."
      ========================================================
      In the "History of Sudbury," by A.S. Hudson, are the following passages:

      "Mr. Rice was a prominent man in the settlement. He early owned lands in and out of the town, some of which came by grand of the General Court. His first dwelling-place at Sudbury was on the old North Street. September 1, 1642, he sold this place to John More, and Sept. 13 of the same year leased for six years the Dunster Farm, which lay just east of Cochituate Pond. He bought of the widow Axdell six acres of land and her dwelling-house, which were in the south part of the town, and some years afterward he bought of Philemon Whale his house and nine acres of land near 'the spring' and adjacent to the Axdell place; and these taken together, in part at least formed the old Rice homestead not far from the 'Five Paths' (in Wayland).

      "This old homestead remained in the Rice family for generations. Edmund sold it to his son, Edmund, who passed it to his sons, John and Edmund, and afterward John transferred his share of it to his brother Edmund -- by whom it passed to other members of the family, who occupied it till within the last half century.

      "Before the plantation of Sudbury was commenced there passed through the southeasterly corner of its territory a memorable trail. This was part of the 'Old Connecticut Path.' This highway extended from the seaboard settlements far into the interior. From Watertown it passed through what is now Waltham and Weston to that section of Sudbury now Wayland; from thence south-westerly to the north side of Cochituate Pond, and on through the wilderness toward Connecticut. It is, we believe, the road now traveled from Weston Corner by 'Five Paths' Wayland to Framingham mention is made of this way in the town recording as early as 1643 and again in 1648.

      "Where it passed through the town it was called 'the road from Watertown to Dunster Farm,' a tract of 600 acres granted 1640 to President Dunster of Harvard College, bounded on the west by Cochituate Pond and early leased by Edmund Rice of Sudbury. This trail was first made known to the English by some Nipnet Indians who came to Boston bringing corn at ta time when there was a scarcity of it in the colony.

      "Over this path the settlers went who founded Weathersfield, Conn. This path is now supplied every few miles by markers -- stating it to be the Old Connecticut Path."
    • Family data
      Edmund Rice was married to Thomasine Frost (1600?1654) on 15 October 1618 in St. Mary's Church, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, England 52.242431°N 0.717315°E and they had 10 children including:[75][76][nb 17]

      Mary Rice, baptized 23 August 1619 at St. James Church Stanstead, Suffolk, England, possibly married Thomas Axtell of Bushey on 10 October 1638 at St. Albans.[80][nb 18]
      Henry Rice, baptized 13 February 1620 O.S./1621 N.S. at St. James Church, Stanstead, Suffolk, died 10 February 1710/11 at Framingham, married Elizabeth Moore 1 February 1643/44.[86] Along with his father, Henry was among the first grantees of a 4 acres (16,000 m2) house lot in the first Sudbury settlement in September 1639.[87] Henry Rice and his family were among the first European settlers of the area southwest of Sudbury on the Old Connecticut Path later to become Framingham.[44]
      Edward Rice, baptized 20 October 1622 at St. James Church, Stanstead, Suffolk, died 15 August 1712 at Marlborough, MA, married Agnes Bent in 1646.[88] Edward Rice was one of the original inhabitants of Marlborough having been granted 35 acres (140,000 m2) on 26 November 1660.[89]
      Thomas Rice, baptized 26 January 1625/26 at St. James Church, Stanstead, Suffolk, died 16 November 1681 at Sudbury, MA, married Mary King 1652.[90] Thomas Rice was one of the original inhabitants of Marlborough, having been granted 35 acres (140,000 m2) on 26 November 1660.[89] Thomas's home was a fortified garrison house during King Philip's War of 1675-78.[91]
      Lydia Rice, baptized 9 March 1627/28 at St. Peter's Church, Berkhamsted, Hertfordshire, died 5 April 1675, at Boston, MA, married Hugh Drury 1645 in Sudbury.[92] Hugh Drury was a carpenter by trade and the family resided in Boston. Drury became a member of the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company in 1659 and was subsequently its Lieutenant.[93][94]
      Matthew Rice, baptized 28 February 1628/29 at St. Peter's Church, Berkhamsted, died 1717 at Sudbury, MA, married Martha Lamson 2 November 1654. Matthew resided on the former "Jennison Farm" tract acquired in 1657 by Edmund in the easternmost part of Sudbury.[55]
      Daniel Rice, baptized 1 November 1632 at St. Peter's Church, Berkhamsted, died 10 November 1632 at Berkhamsted.
      Samuel Rice, baptized 12 November 1634 at St. Peter's Church, Berkhamsted, died 25 February 1684/85 at Marlborough, MA, married (1) Elizabeth King 8 November 1655, (2) Mary (Dix) Browne September 1668, and (3) Sarah (White) Hosmer 13 December 1676.[95] Samuel Rice was one of the original inhabitants of Marlborough, having been granted 26 acres (110,000 m2) on 26 November 1660. He served in the Massachusetts Militia in 1675 at Marlborough during King Philip's War.[89][95]
      Joseph Rice, baptized 13 March 1637/38, at St. Peter's Church, Berkhamsted, died 23 December 1711 at Stow, MA, married (1) Mercy (aka Martha) King 4 May 1658, (2) Mary Beers in 1670, and (3) Sarah (Prescott) Wheeler on 22 February 1677/78.[96] Joseph Rice was one of the original inhabitants of Marlborough, having been granted 22 acres (89,000 m2) on 26 November 1660.[89] Joseph's home was a fortified garrison house during King Philip's War of 1675-78.[91] Joseph Rice served as a representative in the Massachusetts General Court in 1683 and 1698.[97]
      Benjamin Rice, born 31 May 1640 at Sudbury, MA, died 19 December 1713 at Sudbury, MA, married (1) Mary Browne on 2 June 1661, and (2) Mary (Chamberlain) Graves on 1 April 1691. Along with his father and several brothers, Benjamin Rice was an original inhabitant of Marlborough having been granted 24 acres (97,000 m2) on 26 November 1660.[89]
      After the death of Thomasine Frost Rice on 13 June 1654 in Sudbury, MA, Edmund Rice married Mercy Brigham (c 1616-1693) on 1 March 1655 in Sudbury, MA. Mercy Brigham was the widow of Thomas Brigham (1603?1653).[98] This marriage began the long association between the Rice and Brigham families. The maiden name of Mercy Brigham, often cited as Hurd, is uncertain due to lack of any primary documentation.[99][100] Two daughters were born to Edmund and Mercy Rice as follows:

      Lydia Rice, born circa 1657 at Sudbury, MA, died 26 May 1718, married James Hawkins, Jr. circa 1678, probably in Boston. Hawkins was a stonemason & bricklayer by trade.[101]
      Ruth Rice, born 29 September 1659 at Marlborough, MA, died 30 March 1742 at Glastonbury, Connecticut, married Capt. Samuel Welles, grandson of Thomas Welles on 20 June 1683[102]
      Edmund Rice's descendants
      Main article: List of Edmund Rice (colonist) descendants

      Andrew Henshaw Ward's A Genealogical History of the Rice Family: The Descendants of Deacon Edmund Rice, financed by members of the Rice family and published in 1858.
      Descendants of Edmund Rice had been meeting annually at the old Rice homestead in Wayland since 5 September 1851.[103] Documentation of Edmund Rice?s descendants began with the 1858 publication of a genealogy of the Rice family by Andrew Henshaw Ward (1784-1864). Its publication was funded by a committee formed at the 1856 annual reunion consisting of five Rice descendants, including: George Merrick Rice (1808-1894), then president of the Worcester Common Council; Edmund Rice (1813-1888) (father of stage producer Edward E. Rice); his uncle, Levi Goodnough (1804-1886), a physician from Sudbury; Anson Rice (1798-1875) (postmaster of Northborough and grandfather of author Wallace Rice); and U.S. Congressman Constantine C. Esty (1824-1912).[104] Despite the difficulties of communication and transportation in the 1850s, Ward was able to document over 6,200 Edmund Rice descendants and spouses, mostly in the New England region.[105][106]

      On 7 October 1903, Edmund Rice descendants were on hand to dedicate the homesite marker of Jonas Rice, a grandson of Edmund and founder of Worcester, Massachusetts.[107] A few years later on 30 August 1912, shortly after the old family homestead in Wayland had been lost by fire, Rice descendants in Massachusetts formally organized the Edmund Rice (1638) Association (ERA), led primarily by Nellie Rice Fiske (1856-1934) a school teacher from Wayland. At that first ERA meeting, Eustace Bond Rice (1871-1938) a professor of music theory at the New England Conservatory who had grown up in the old Rice homestead was elected as the association?s first president, and they set out to raise funds to erect the homesite and cemetery monuments.[108][109]

      Beginning in the early 20th Century, and partially aided by the compilation and publication of Massachusetts vital records by Franklin Pierce Rice (1852-1919), among others, the ERA undertook the task of building upon Ward?s pioneering genealogy by verifying and better documenting Edmund?s descendants. In the early 1930s, Alexander Hamilton Rice, Jr. (1875-1956) commissioned genealogist Mary Lovering Holman (1868-1947) of the New England Historic Genealogical Society to examine existing information on Edmund Rice and produce an updated genealogy.[8][110][nb 19] On 10 Jan 1934, the ERA incorporated under the laws of Massachusetts as the Edmund Rice (1638) Association, Inc.[111] For the 1938 tricentennial of Edmund's immigration to America, the ERA published Elsie Hawes Smith's Edmund Rice and his Family and in the 1940s & 1950s continued correspondence and gatherings of Rice descendants.[nb 20] Beginning in December 1960, the ERA began publishing a quarterly newsletter to disseminate genealogical and historical information about Edmund Rice, his ancestors and his descendants.[113] By 1968, the ERA had compiled and verified 26,000 descendants of Edmund after publication of their first addendum to Ward's genealogy.[114] During the 1970s and 1980s, the ERA published further genealogical research findings in three additional volumes,[115] and in the mid-1990s, the Association began transferring all of their print records into an electronic format. By 2017, the ERA electronic database of known Edmund Rice descendants into the 14th and 15th generations had exceeded 260,000 individuals.[116] Using data from the ERA electronic database, a total of 2.7 million of Edmund's descendants has been estimated to be in the 12th generation, with a total estimated 4.4 million descendants cumulatively in the first twelve generations.[117][nb 21]

      In 1980, Edmund Rice descendant Corinne M. Snow (1925-2008) wrote a historical fiction novella titled The Deacons based upon the primary historical records of Edmund Rice and his family and Powell's (1963) Puritan Village: The Formation of a New England Town. [nb 22] The story covers the life of the Rice family in the time period beginning about 1621 in Suffolk, England, through their immigration to Massachusetts in 1638, until the 1713 founding of Worcester by Edmund's grandchildren Jonas, Gershom, and James. It provides an interpretation of the family's experiences in Stanstead, Suffolk, as well as in Berkhamsted, and it offers a purely fictional account of their departure from Southampton Harbor aboard the Confidence to Watertown, Massachusetts.[nb 23] The story further provides an insight into the Rice family's life in Puritan Massachusetts during the political controversies generated as Sudbury and Marlborough were being founded and the experiences of the family during King Philip's War of 1675-78.[120]

    • ==========================================================
      Genetic genealogy

      Plaque memorializing the death of one and capture of four Rice boys from a flax field in Marlborough (later to become Westborough) with the inscription, "In the Field South of this Spot August 8, 1704 Indians Killed Nahor and Captured Ashur, Adonijah, Silas and Timothy Rice." The monument was placed by the Westborough Historical Society in 1904 on the occasion of the capture bicentennial.[121] It is located near Westborough High School at 42.265712°N 71.617979°W.
      Since 2000 with the leadership of Robert V. Rice,[nb 24] the ERA has conducted extensive haplotype DNA testing on males known to or believed to have descended from seven sons of Edmund.[123] Enough data has been collected from living male descendants of Edmund's sons to reconstruct Edmund's Y-DNA haplotype.[124] These data have served to support conclusions of Edmund's birth in Suffolk, East Anglia and provide additional evidence to dispel a misleading early 20th-century claim that Edmund Rice was descended from Welsh royalty.[5] The 111 tested (Y-STR) Y-chromosome markers (e.g. DYS391 = 10; DYS392 = 11; DYS393 = 10; DYS426 = 11; DYS447 = 23; DYS454 = 11; DYS455 = 8; YCA-IIa,b = 19, 21) from known descendants of Edmund are consistent with Haplogroup I1-M253; this is exceedingly rare among the Welsh but relatively common among inhabitants of East Anglia.[125][126]

      The genetic testing of Edmund Rice descendants has also served to confirm two different direct male descendant lines in which there had been a change in surname.[123] Data showed direct patrilineal descendants with the surname King, confirming a name change had occurred with Samuel Rice 1667-1713 (aka Lt. Samuel Rice King).[127][128][129] Notable direct descendants of Edmund with the surname of King include William H. King (1863?1949) and his son, David S. King (1917?2009), who were U.S. Congressmen from Utah.[130] Likewise some individuals with the surname of Royce also have been found to have Y-STR genetic markers identical to Edmund Rice, confirming a name change by Alpheus Rice 1787-1871 (aka Capt. Alpheus Royce).[131] A notable direct patrilineal descendant of Edmund with the surname of Royce is George E. Royce (1829-1903), a businessman and state legislator from Vermont.[130] In addition to confirmation of surname changes in the direct patrilineal lines, formerly presumed descendants of Edmund have been ruled out by way of genetic mismatching.[132]

      The genetic testing also revealed Y-STR genetic markers of Edmund Rice among some male members of the Mohawk nation who have the surname of Rice. The tested individuals are most probably descended from Silas Rice,[123][133] one of four Rice boys from two families who were captured during Queen Anne's War by an Indian raid on 8 August 1704 in Marlborough (in the part of town to later become Westborough), Massachusetts, and taken to Kahnawake, Canada, where they were adopted and raised by Mohawk families. They became assimilated as Mohawk, marrying local women of the tribe. Ashur Rice was ransomed after four years and returned to Massachusetts.[133][134] Actress Alexandrea Kawisenhawe Rice, (b. 1972, Mohawk) of Kahnawake, is a notable descendant of Edmund Rice and his great-grandson Silas.[130] She grew up in Brooklyn, where a Mohawk community formed of families of ironworkers.[135][136]
    • Research Notes on Edmund Rice re: Dna markers
      By Charles Julian July 18, 2006 at 11:24:47
      In reply to: Re: Stamford Royces and UK Royce Demography
      Charles Julian 5/03/06
      It looks as if new Robert Royce info may be a while in arriving. Here is some miscellanea in the meantime.


      A. Notes on Edmund Rice

      Royce research has gotten me interested in the Edmund Rice line as well since it's unsolved. Edmund Rice was born about 1594 in England and lived in County Suffolk where he married Thomasine Frost in 1618. He moved for a time to Berkhamstead in Hertford before immigrating to Massachusetts c. 1638. Edmund Rice's origins prior to his marriage are unknown and his baptismal record has never been found.

      ( http://www.edmund-rice.org/ancestor.htmhttp://www.edmund-rice.org/ancestor.htm )

      I did some looking around and here are the findings. A search of available batch records reveals that there are five records for Rices in the county of Suffolk at about the time Edmund resided there ( c. 1590-1630 )

      1 Johes Ryce
      . . . + Kathernm Wyatt 24 SEP 1612 Glemsford, Suffolk.

      1 Johis Rice
      . . . + Katherine
      . . . . . . 2 Francisca Rice chr. 04 JUL 1613 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Katherina Rice chr. 17 SEP 1615 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Christiana Rice chr. 16 NOV 1617 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Johannis Rice chr. 09 JUN 1620 Glemsford, Suffolk.

      What's significant about these seemingly irrelevant records is that the town of Stanstead, residence of Edmund Rice, is in the Glem valley, and Glemsford is the next town over. So in all of Suffolk County, which is a pretty big place, the only other Rices on record from this period turn up a mile down the road from Edmund and also in the Glem. Searching the Glemsford batch manually gives the following setup for Rices of Glemsford.

      1 Johannes Ryce
      . . . + Katherine Wyatt 24 SEP 1612 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Francisca Rice chr. 04 JUL 1613 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Katherina Rice chr. 17 SEP 1615 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Christiana Rice chr. 16 NOV 1617 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Johannis Rice chr. 09 JUN 1620 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Alicia Rise chr. 09 JUN 1622 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Rosa Rise chr. 01 MAR 1624 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Anna Rise chr. 18 NOV 1627 Glemsford, Suffolk.

      1 Margareta Rise
      . . . + Ambrosius Witt 31 OCT 1620 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Ambrosius Wiett chr. 18 AUG 1622 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Alicia Wiett chr. 30 JAN 1624 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Maria Wiat chr. 15 JUL 1627 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Anna Wiate chr. 20 DEC 1629 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Thomas Wyat chr. 19 JUL 1632 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Margareta Wyat chr. 18 JAN 1634 Glemsford, Suffolk.
      . . . . . . 2 Susanna Wyat chr. 11 JUN 1637 Glemsford, Suffolk.

      John and Margaret Rice or Rise of Glemsford, presumably brother and sister, married Catherine and Ambrose White, brother and sister, children of Thomas White/Witt/Wyatt of Glemsford. John Rice had one son, John, named for himself. Margaret Rice had a son, Ambrosius White Jr, named for Ambrosius Sr, and a son named Thomas White, probably for the grandfather of the same name. There are no Rice records previous to this and the birth records of John Rice and Margaret Rice are not to be found at Glemsford despite the fact that records at this parish go back to 1550.

      Hypothesis: Rices of Glemsford are related to Edmund and Henry Rice of Stanstead, i.e. there is a collective Glem Valley Rice family. Edmund and Henry Rice are brothers, one older one younger, who married sisters named Frost ( Thomasine and Elizabeth Frost are mentioned in their father Edward's will ). None of these Rices ? Henry, Edmund, John or Margaret ? has a birth record at any of the Glem Valley parishes even though, for example, all of the Whites and Frosts do ? Edward Frost and Thomas White Sr were christened at Glemsford on 13 March and 14 March of 1560 respectively. If Rices are not on record at Stanstead parish, which isn't logged on the IGI but presumably has been searched for earlier Rice occurrences, then they are unlikely to have been born in the Glem Valley at all and probably came from elsewhere. As mentioned previously, Edmund Rice's Y-DNA indicates a Norman background, e.g. de Ryes or de Roi, and so an origin for the family somewhere in England's southeast seems most probable.

      Henry Rice's marriage to Elizabeth Frost in 1605 is the earliest Rice record from the area. Edmund Rice was born about 1594. Margaret Rice was the last Glem Valley Rice of this generation to be married. Her husband was born 1596 so she was probably born c. 1596-1604. In all likelihood the Rices, probably four siblings, arrived in the valley between 1595 and 1605. The surname Rice doesn't occur consistently anywhere in Suffolk until the appearance of generations subsequent to this. The tree in question is probably of the shape

      1 Unknown Rice
      . . . + Unknown
      . . . . . . 2 Henry Rice b. Abt 1585?
      . . . . . . 2 John Rice b. Abt 1590?
      . . . . . . 2 Edmund Rice b. Abt 1594?
      . . . . . . 2 Margaret Rice b. Abt 1600?

      or ( less likely )

      1 Unknown Rice
      . . . + Unknown
      . . . . . . 2 Unknown Rice
      . . . . . . . . . + Unknown
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Henry Rice b. Abt 1585?
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Edmund Rice b. Abt 1594?
      . . . . . . 2 Unknown Rice
      . . . . . . . . . + Unknown
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 John Rice b. Abt 1590?
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Margaret Rice b. Abt 1600?

      Finding a definitive birth record and parents for any one of these four should point at least to a common grandparent. Edmund Rice appears to have named at least the last five of his sons for biblical figures ( Matthew, Daniel, Samuel, Joseph, Benjamin ). Henry is the name of Edmund's older brother. Edward is the name of the Frost sisters' father. The first name Thomas may have Rice-line significance. The biblical names do not seem to begin until after Edmund moves his family to Hertford. The eldest daughter in both lines who was not named for her mother was named Mary, though the Frosts' mother's name was Thomasine. 'Thomas and Mary' would be a preliminary guess as to Edmund's parents' names based on the patterning but this is conjecture. At this point I would take only Henry Rice of Stanstead who married Elizabeth Frost to be a definitive sibling of Edmund although John Rice and Margaret Rice are more than likely additional siblings.

      1 Unknown Rice
      . . . + Unknown
      . . . . . . 2 Henry Rice
      . . . . . . . . . + Elizabeth Frost 12 NOV 1605 Stanstead, Suffolk, England.
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Henry Rice b. 1606 Stanstead, Suffolk, England, d. 23 SEP 1608. ( named for his father )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Edward Rice chr. 08 MAY 1608 Stanstead, Suffolk, England. ( named for his maternal grandfather )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Henry Rice chr. 20 OCT 1609 Stanstead, Suffolk, England. ( named for his father )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Elizabeth Rice chr. 18 NOV 1612 Stanstead, Suffolk, England. ( named for her mother )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Mary Rice chr. 20 JAN 1615 Stanstead, Suffolk, England. ( named for ? )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Anne Rice chr. 10 MAR 1618 Stanstead, Suffolk, England. ( named for ? )
      . . . . . . 2 Edmund Rice b. Abt 1594 England.
      . . . . . . . . . + Thomasine Frost 15 OCT 1618 Bury Saint Edmunds, Suffolk, England.
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Mary Rice chr. 18 AUG 1619 Stanstead Suffolk, England. ( named for ? )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Henry Rice b. Abt 1620 England. ( named for his uncle ) *
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Edward Rice b. Abt 1622 England. ( named for his maternal grandfather )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Thomas Rice chr. 26 JAN 1625 Stanstead, Suffolk, England. ( named for ? )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Lydia Rice chr. 09 MAR 1627 Berkhamstead, Hertford, England. ( named for ? )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Matthew Rice b. Abt 1629 England. ( probably named for gospel of the same name )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Daniel Rice chr. 01 NOV 1632 Berkhamstead, Hertford, England, d. 1632. ( biblical persona )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Samuel Rice chr. 12 NOV 1634 Berkhamstead, Hertford, England. ( biblical persona )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Joseph Rice chr. 13 MAR 1637 Berkhamstead, Hertford, England. ( biblical persona )
      . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Benjamin Rice b. 31 MAY 1640 Sudbury, MA. ( biblical persona )

      * Henry Rice is usually placed as b. Abt 1618 but there is no room between Edmund's marriage and his first child b. Stanstead.

      Things to do to that might solve Edmund Rice's ancestry:

      a) Find names of landowners in the Glem c. 1600. If there are four Rices with no birth records then a man named Rice probably moved to Glemsford or Stanstead with his family c. 1600 and owned property there.

      b) Edmund Rice was a deacon of the church ? where would a man from Stanstead or Berkhamstead have had to go in order to be ordained as such and does this place keep records.

      c) Find out who the Frost and White families were, their occupations, who were their neighbours and what linked them to Rices.


      B. More Y-DNA

      The Edmund Rice line is genetically unrelated to that of Robert Royce. The reconstructed 25-marker Y-DNA signature for each man is

      ER 13 23 14 10 14 14 11 14 11 12 11 28 15 08 09 08 11 23 16 18 28 12 14 15 16
      RR 14 23 15 10 15 16 11 13 11 14 12 32 15 08 10 11 11 25 14 20 26 11 14 14 15

      ( http://www.edmund-rice.org/haplotype.htmhttp://www.edmund-rice.org/haplotype.htm )

      The signatures look similar on the surface but it takes 28 mutations ( movements of the numbers up or down ) to make one code into the other, so the most recent Y-DNA ancestor that these two share, if indeed they share a recent common Y-DNA ancestor, would have lived tens of thousands of years ago. As mentioned previously, Edmund Rice's haplotype appears to be markedly Scandinavian when it comes to exact genetic matches. Exact European matches for Robert Royce's haplotype are few and far between in the Y-DNA surname databases that I have access to ( i.e. six subjects altogether, four of whom are Royces / Rices descended from Robert plus two others living in the U.S. with as yet undocumented Old World ancestors ), but if we allow for one mutation with at least 12 markers compared, resultant specific locations in Europe are

      1. Oslo, Norway
      2. Stonehouse, Scotland
      3. Göteborg & Bohus, Sweden
      4. Thornton Watlass, Yorkshire, England

      These locations are in Scandinavia and the Northern British Isles, and would seem to indicate that the Robert Royce haplotype is at least Northern European, if not specifically Scandinavian as I suspect.

      Lastly there seems to be some confusion as to why Norman French ancestry would imply Scandinavian Y-DNA. In about 911 the Vikings, called Northmen or Normans, sailed down from Scandinavia with the intention of plundering France. To appease them without having his entire country ravaged and burned, the French King Charles the Simple ( no relation ? yet ) simply gave them the North of France, thereafter called Normandy, where these vikings settled and became the new French aristocracy. The Normans were speaking French within a generation and replaced Norse names like Gangrolfr Ragnvaldrsson with e.g. Guillaume Liègard de Normandie. In 1066 the Normans led by William the Conqueror a.k.a. William the Bastard a.k.a. William I of England, invaded England and took over. When the conquest was over the Norman aristocrats divided England's lands among their soldiers and kinsmen who settled there, and this is the reason that a French-sounding English surname often entails Norman ancestry and Scandinavian Y-DNA. In cases such as this the surnames Royce and Rice will have resulted from Norman by-names like 'de Ryes' and 'de Roi' having been Anglicized to Ryes and Roy-s ( English ?s being equivalent to French de ). The transition from one form of these names to the other may have begun about the time of the Hundred Years War ( 1337-1443 ) with French-sounding surnames falling out of fashion in Britain owing to enmity with France.

  • Sources 
    1. [S71] Edmund Rice Association, Edmund Rice Association (Reliability: 4).